Stephen Cass: Hey and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast, the place we have a look at concrete options to some huge issues. I’m your host, Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than we begin, I simply need to inform you that you may get the newest protection from a few of Spectrum’s most essential beats, together with AI, local weather change, and robotics, by signing up for certainly one of our free newsletters. Simply go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe. Sustainable electronics is turning into an more and more essential matter world wide, and at the moment we’re going to be speaking with Liisa Hakola, a senior scientist at VTT in Finland, concerning the European Union’s Sustronics program geared toward this very matter. I’d prefer to welcome you to the present. Thanks a lot, Liisa.
Liisa Hakola: Thanks. Good to be right here. Thanks for inviting.
Cass: You’re very welcome. In order I stated, sustainable electronics is turning into an even bigger and larger matter, however it appears to be a kind of issues that folks speak about it greater than truly doing something about it. How is the EU Sustronics mission going to assist with that, and the place does VTT match into that?
Hakola: Thanks for the query. Certainly, the Sustronics mission is a big initiative with 46 companions from 11 totally different European nations. And our predominant matter is about discovering methods to make electronics extra sustainable all through their life cycle. So not simply specializing in one facet however considering totally different alternatives which may come up from collection of supplies or manufacturing applied sciences or round financial methods that may very well be used. And VTT’s function is, initially, to be the technical supervisor of the mission to make sure that the totally different companions work collectively and the totally different actions are interacting with one another with the intention to have a joint effort. However on high of that, VTT additionally brings a few of its applied sciences, primarily from printed electronics, to the mission.
Cass: Is it a case that you simply search for trade companions who then are available and work with you? They give the impression of being round. They assume you’re match throughout the program. Or are you actively seeking out individuals and going, “Oh, we expect we’ve some expertise which may allow you to out right here”?
Hakola: Properly, principally, I believe they’re each methods. After all, there are 46 companions already within the consortium, and over half of them are from the trade, giant enterprises and SMEs. So after all, they’ve particular wants, and we’ve been already agreeing through the proposal section that VTT might supply sure applied sciences for them to then begin testing for his or her merchandise and if that would assist with reducing their environmental footprint.
Cass: I assume the query is, why would anyone be part of this system, particularly for those who’re a producer and so forth? I imply, as a citizen of Earth, I believe it’s an incredible concept, however we frequently hear about bottom-line points and so forth. What’s the motivation, if you’re any person who’s making electronics, to turn into certainly one of these companions?
Hakola: Properly, initially, within the EU, we’ve this Inexperienced Deal. So the rules and the laws is growing right into a course the place the entire corporations within the EU need to take note of the sustainability facets of the merchandise they’re growing and promoting. So with the intention to obtain that, to have the ability to meet the necessities coming from the EU facet, the businesses must develop new methods to keep up or enhance sustainability of their merchandise. And that is one alternative as a result of collaborating with the analysis institutes and universities, the businesses get entry to sort of applied sciences which have been in growth in these, after which they will attempt them out in their very own merchandise, after which in that option to get nearer to assembly the sustainability necessities.
Cass: So we’re based mostly in New York, in the USA, the place it’s fairly a distinct regulatory regime. However are you able to inform me, what’s the enforcement mechanism for these sustainability rules? What occurs for those who don’t do it? As a result of I can think about some individuals simply pondering, oh, it’s only a slap on the wrist, or it’s a effective. It’s only a value of doing enterprise. How is these guidelines actually enforced?
Hakola: Properly, after all, EU is growing the rules on a regular basis, so there would possibly come new enforcements sooner or later. However the upcoming regulation about ecodesign for sustainable merchandise, in order that regulation calls for that there’s going to be a digital product passport that will give details about the environmental influence of the product. And that sort of info can be out there even for shoppers. So truly, if the shoppers are environmentally conscious, they might begin deciding on the merchandise which might be environmentally pleasant. In order that’s, after all, fairly robust option to make corporations work in the direction of making extra sustainable merchandise. As a result of if shoppers begin deciding on the sustainable merchandise, then the non-sustainable ones will lose their market share.
Cass: So that you talked just a little bit earlier about your entire form of lifecycle and sustainability. Alongside that life cycle, what are a few of the greatest obstacles that at present exist in the direction of making electronics extra sustainable?
Hakola: Properly, there are a few issues which might be fairly dominant. So initially, the uncooked supplies which might be used for making digital merchandise, they’re principally fossil-based, like totally different metals which might be wanted for making conductive buildings. And likewise, the substrates the place the metals are put, they’re often based mostly on some plastics or plastic composite supplies. After which we are literally speaking about supplies which might be crucial or uncommon or fairly helpful. So it’s fairly a problem to seek out supplies that would substitute the present supplies as a result of we all know that these are well-performing. So can we truly discover some sustainable alternate options for them?
And one other factor is, after all, that the processes which might be used for making circuit boards, for instance, they devour various power and uncooked supplies. And that, after all, will not be excellent for the surroundings as a result of it’s not very power or materials environment friendly to fabricate in a approach that a whole lot of materials is wasted and processed a number of instances. And naturally, the entire electronics trade is sort of complicated and fragmented trade. There are a whole lot of layers, and it’s actually tough to get all of them to work collectively and form of transparently switch knowledge and data between the totally different gamers.
Cass: So I’d like to enter that—and perhaps that is a few of VTT’s particular experience—and discuss just a little concerning the work that you simply’ve finished in supplies particularly then.
Hakola: Sure. So VTT has targeted rather a lot on changing the fossil-based substrate supplies with supplies which might be bio-based or renewable supplies. And effectively, in Finland, the forest trade has sometimes been fairly robust. So after all, we’ve studied easy methods to use the cellulose-based supplies like paper as a substrate for electronics. However there are additionally a whole lot of these biopolymer-based substrates that are– principally, they appear and feel like plastics, however they’re from bio-based sources, so they’re sort of renewable. And a few of them are very easy to recycle, or a few of them may even be compostable.
Cass: You stated compostable there. I’m just a little nervous as a result of I’ve these compostable plastic luggage in my kitchen that simply don’t final very lengthy. And so if you say that, I’m just a little involved about placing that in my electronics. Or is it for very short-lived form of disposable electronics, given a few of them have very quick life cycles?
Hakola: Sure. If we’re speaking about utilizing printing as a producing expertise, so then after all we’re in a position to manufacture electronics which have a shorter lifetime, and they are often even used only one time. However for those who produce a whole lot of electronics that’s for single-use function, then truly you might be creating a whole lot of new digital waste. So it’s important to one way or the other deal with this subject with having single-use electronics, however then with the ability to one way or the other recycle or dispose that electronics. And in that case, if there may be, for instance, some diagnostic gadget the place you measure one thing, then in all probability there can be a single-use half on that gadget that would then in all probability be compostable. However then there would even be a reusable half. So after performing some diagnostic measurements, you modify just one piece of the gadget, after which that changeable half would then be compostable. Or it will also be that the recycling course of is established, and it will be simply recyclable. However in that sort of circumstances, you would possibly take into consideration the compostable options additionally.
Cass: So I’d like to speak just a little bit extra about recycling there. Digital waste is notoriously very tough to waste. We have now to separate out our digital waste and we’ve to place it someplace else. There are particular pickup days, which I do dutifully. However then I typically take into consideration when all these items is placed on the valley, how is anyone going to realistically recycle that 10-year-old damaged projector or these assortment of printers and so forth? How do you make recycling work higher?
Hakola: Properly, yeah, that’s after all a matter of— initially, you should set up the recycling course of, and there must be totally different assortment bins the place individuals might dispose their electronics. However after all, I come from Finland. Truly, in my condo the place I stay, there are one thing like seven totally different recycling bins the place I put the totally different kind of waste. So including there eighth bin for electronics wouldn’t be that huge of a difficulty. However for those who assume recycling additionally from the scratch, then the digital gadgets truly need to be designed in a approach that they’re higher for recycling. So we speak about round design, for instance. Already within the design section of the merchandise, you truly take into consideration the recycling after which design the electronics in a approach that it’s, for instance, modular, so you’ll be able to disintegrate the totally different elements simply and recuperate the supplies. So truly, every little thing begins within the design section.
Cass: Does this additionally assist with issues like serviceability or repairability? I discover myself that typically it’s simpler for me to restore one thing that’s 40 years outdated. I’ve introduced these merchandise again from the useless. However a product I purchase at the moment, it’s a blob. I’ve to make use of very specialised instruments to get it open, if I can. I typically need to ship away for a particular equipment. Is a part of this design course of additionally taking a look at these points?
Hakola: Sure, sure. That’s the identical factor that already within the design section. Design the gadgets in a approach that components will be changed in a while, and other people don’t have to purchase the brand new mannequin. I perceive that, after all, for the electronics corporations, their enterprise to promote new fashions on a regular basis. However maybe they will discover a appropriate enterprise mannequin additionally from repairing the gadgets. There may very well be some enterprise alternatives additionally.
Cass: So that you talked just a little bit about manufacturing processes and making these just a little bit extra sustainable. Are you able to broaden on that?
Hakola: So what VTT has been growing for over 20 years is printed electronics. So it implies that we’re utilizing printing as a producing expertise for electronics. And in comparison with the present state-of-the-art electronics manufacturing, printing is an additive methodology. So we truly add supplies solely the place they’re wanted, and we don’t strip them away in a while after which attempt to determine what to do with that sort of materials. In order that’s a possibility for digital manufacturing to lower its materials but additionally power consumption. We have now carried out some life cycle evaluation evaluation the place it has been proven that the printed electronics consumes much less power throughout manufacturing than conventional manufacturing. So there may be truly already a possibility there. However in addition to this power subject, the bio-based and renewable substrate supplies are already suitable with the printing expertise. It’s truly fairly difficult to print these, for instance, paper as a substrate to conventional digital manufacturing. However for printing, it’s fairly straightforward as a result of you understand that you may print on paper, so utilizing that to make electronics is a sort of simpler process.
Cass: So are you able to discuss just a little bit about a few of the form of very concrete examples you’ve developed with a few of your companions?
Hakola: Sure. So if you concentrate on the Sustronics program– so there are literally a whole lot of growth for these single-use diagnostic gadgets. So the purpose is to develop the sort of gadgets that folks can truly even use at dwelling to measure one thing from their saliva, or they will monitor how the wound is therapeutic by having only a plaster-type wearable gadget on the pores and skin. And different issues that we’re growing are additionally these different wearable gadgets that aren’t for single use, however they’re for sports activities and health sector the place you’ll be able to monitor how you might be doing if you end up exercising and you’ll even measure your coronary heart charge, after which the app would– the app you’ll have in your cell phone would then inform you based mostly on the measurement knowledge that, okay, you probably did effectively at the moment or one thing else.
And one software space that VTT has been growing rather a lot gadgets already within the earlier analysis packages are these options for clever packaging. So if we discuss concerning the packaging trade, and there’s a lot of wants within the logistics of packages to measure, for instance, temperature to guarantee that the chilly chain has not been damaged and your merchandise aren’t spoiling. So VTT has been growing electronics for that, like sensors connected to packages, digital sensors that may transmit info to cell phone. But when you concentrate on the packaging trade, the packages are recyclable. So then truly we’re including electronics there, then the sustainability of those sort of sensible tags, how we might name them, can be a extremely essential facet to think about. And there, these new sort of supplies like utilizing paper as a substrate for electronics have a extremely essential function.
Cass: And the way lengthy do you assume it’ll be earlier than we begin seeing these within the market as one thing that buyers can form of see and really feel for themselves?
Hakola: Properly, truly, a few of them are already on {the marketplace}. After all, not in actually large volumes. However there are, for instance, contract producers for printed electronics that manufacture one thing that’s used as part of a tool that’s offered out there. However after all, we will’t print a cell phone with these sort of applied sciences, no less than not but. So it relies upon. Maybe a few of them are already there. For a few of them, it’d take three to 5 years, and a few even longer. However let’s say through the subsequent decade, there would definitely be product bulletins.
Cass: And so that you talked about producers. The place are these producers situated? Are they native producers, or is that this one thing that we will see that’s being built-in into the worldwide provide chain when it comes to these nice manufacturing facilities in China, for instance?
Hakola: Yeah. Properly, after all, the printed electronics contract producers, they aren’t actually giant corporations but. They’re nonetheless on the early section, and they’re situated all world wide. Most likely fairly a lot of them within the Europe, as a result of in Europe, we’ve been investigating printed electronics rather a lot. However yeah, there is no such thing as a subject why they couldn’t be a part of the worldwide provide chains. However as we expect, “What’s the technique of the EU?”, we truly need to– the EU desires to additionally transfer once more again to the European provide chains additionally to form of preserve the native strategic availability of key applied sciences. So I believe within the EU, there can be in all probability fairly robust help sooner or later for making extra producers coming again to Europe or no less than establishing new manufacturing items to Europe.
Cass: So for those who might wave a magic wand and remedy one drawback proper now that’s in your desk, what would that be?
Hakola: Ah. Properly, in all probability I’d make the merchandise extra repairable or reusable. I’ve personally had some points with the gadgets just lately, and it has been a little bit of annoying that there is no such thing as a restore choice. So I’ve been pressured to purchase new gadgets, though I’ve not wished to take action. So in all probability I’d change the enterprise a bit that the restore would at all times be an choice except you have got one thing that’s like 50 years outdated. Maybe that will be a difficulty. However even for a 5-year-old gadget, it will be good to have a restore choice. So I assume I’d develop the sort of design for the electronics that they actually will be repaired or reused.
Cass: Are you able to discuss just a little bit extra about Finland’s historical past with— you stated it has this historical past popping out of the cellulose trade. So are you able to discuss just a little bit extra about that time, about how Finland’s expertise with cellulose and paper form of fed into this program?
Hakola: Yeah. Maybe the background is in order that Finland has an extended historical past of paper and forest applied sciences. And the primary printed electronics initiatives that had been initiated in Finland greater than 20 years in the past, there the function of the paper corporations in Finland was actually robust. So truly, no less than in Finland, how we began to research printed electronics, the initiative was involving various these forest trade corporations. And that’s how we additionally at VTT acquired concerned with utilizing cellulose-based and paper as a substrate for electronics. And if you concentrate on the sustainable electronics, the paper has been there first and solely later got here the opposite alternate options like biopolymers. So I assume within the early stage, the paper trade was truly in search of new enterprise alternatives. They usually thought that it may be discovered from printed electronics as a result of printing on paper is one thing that’s being finished on a regular basis. In order that’s how I believe the factor began, no less than in Finland.
Cass: So this can be a fascinating matter, which we might speak about all day, however I’m afraid we’ve to go away it there. Right this moment we had been speaking with Liisa Hakola from VTT about sustainable electronics. It was so pretty to have you ever on the present.
Hakola: Thanks. It was pretty being right here.
Cass: And for IEEE Spectrum, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you be part of us subsequent time on Fixing the Future.
